Golfblogger

who would buy something they dont use.  I dont believe that would be anybody’s fault but theirs.  Like a gym memberbership. so people buy and only go for a month when they sign up for two years.  Is that the gyms fault or the consumer.  Take responsibility for your actions as a consumer instead of blaming a company tha -provides a good service.

I am sorry you are missing the the dirty little secret and the point. I say this as a warning to others. Hey if others want to buy, great, go for it. Most everyone whom comes in to tour, has no clue they are going to be ask—if they would like to purchase a 5 - 18k membership only today. Do you remember the call you get to come in for a tour and gifts. Come on.. Do you think they would be in business if they; just paid a marketing company to call us, gave away a supposed value up to 2k of gifts (if you win the putt, which by the way they are really wanting you to win).

99% of those whom read this blog will read this after they buy a membership, and this membership is non refundable, as there is is no customer satisfaction clause in the contract I have read. So reading this blog today would mean that it would be to late to learn anything in advance.

When one goes to buy a gym membership they know that before they get there, its a gym. again come on.

I can only take responsibility for what I know in advance, and typically when one spends this kind of money we do it responsibly and likely would have done some preliminary due diligence. Remember they do the take away to impulse you in to the sale. And even express to you how much you love your family by buying a membership

Also, remember I am passionate about Golf. I do not need to be sold, or intimidated in to buying.

Oh! if there was a service to be delivered they would be packed with members. Remember your health club example. Clubs have members. These facilities are empty…

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NOTE GREAT NEW LOG AS WELL: http://www.kisgolf.blogspot.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Charlestongolfer1978 - 17 March 2008 10:26 AM

who would buy something they dont use.  I dont believe that would be anybody’s fault but theirs.  Like a gym memberbership. so people buy and only go for a month when they sign up for two years.  Is that the gyms fault or the consumer.  Take responsibility for your actions as a consumer instead of blaming a company tha -provides a good service.

I suppose the alternate question would be, why does KiS golf use so much pressure selling instead of letting people go home and think about it?  Why do they not have a 30-day or even 3-day opt out?  You get that with a car. 

Of course it is not KiS or the gym’s fault if they have a customer with buyer’s remourse- but unlike so many companies- KiS and the gym know they will have those customers and they are not interested in making those people happy, even if it meant losing them as a customer. 

GolfTec, Parmasters, and the club manufacturers are of course interested in making money- but from what I have seen, none have the high pressure tactics and none will not allow someone to get out of a purchase they made the day before and then regret.  - Sure there may be some penalites, but it is not 100% of the price.  I can buy the most expensive set of Pings or Callaways and have them fit to me, and still get some of my purchase back the next day if I like. 

As far as the sales tactics go- it makes KiS more about the business of Sales, instead of about the business of golf.  I am not so naive to think that all of these companies are not about sales, so is mine-- but the other companies are also seem confident enough in their products that they can satisfy some customers by letting them and their money go.  If there is value in the product and the service, it wouldn’t have to lock people in the way they do.

Martin - wow you get it. As much as I would like to tell Charlestongolfer I am convinced that he might have to beoome a sale in order to shed anymore light. Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy will do nothing for the integrity of the game under the current management. I have been in sales & athletics all my life, and have never experienced such a negative influence as this business model is bringing to the game. One would hope that the trail of tears and remorse(sp) of the toured and non useing members that have regret will give the game another go in another venue.

I cant help the people sho are closed minded and only see the negative in every situation.  That must be a terrible way to live life.  But I can simply show the value they provide in one way that makes it a great value.  I dont care how they market and sell the product, I think it is a wierd way also, but I dont let it mask my decision of the value they added.

For $120 a month for 5 years only.  I get a lifetime mebership, which includes many things but I am only interested in one.  They lessons.  Forget the clubs, the travel program the facility.  The lessons are important becuase they will help me inprove. 

Below is the professional in Charlotte, NC and the professional in Lexington KY.  I get unlimited lessons from them for the rest of my life.  Everyday of the week if neccesary.  The value of a good golf teacher is between $50 to $100 dollars an hour. 

If I were to take just one lesson a week from these accomplished ***PGA Class A instructors*** it would be roughly the value of 200 to 400 dollars a month.  That is just one lesson a week.  Which is probably what I would do if I was a member.  So I see the value as lessons I am paying 120 for the lessons which if I had more in my mebership that savings becomes even more.

It is very simple.  If you will use it, it will be a value.  If you dont it wont.  I am grow up enough to decide for myself the value and would not have to resort to the internet to let other s make decisions for me.

Look at it in a simple form for what it is.  I like it.  If you dont.  Pay your professional hundreds of dollars for his instruction.  But please look at the instructors they have at two of their facilites.  Jeff Lambert is a proven winner, are you doubting his ability to give you or your family instruction in golf.  To have him as a personal coach for 120 a month to much to ask. 

You my friend, are the one missing the point.  And you have done so by looking negitively upon the the whole company based on a marketing scheme that they outsource. If you can devalue just that benifit of being a Kis member, then I may listen to you some more, but otherwise you should not write so negetively about someting that you have not even been a part of.

Jeffrey Lambert
KiS Country Club and Golf Academy
Charlotte, North Carolina

Jeffrey is passionate about teaching golf, and he is very successful at it.  He is a graduate of the San Diego Golf Academy in Orlando, Florida, and has won numerous awards as a college coach. 

Jeffrey is the author of a book, “Stop Teaching Your Child to Play Golf, The Wrong Way”, and will be helping KiS Golf develop creative ways to help your children earn college golf scholarships.

Awards Received

Coached 9 First Team All Conference members.
Coached 3 First Team All Region members.
Broke numerous school records including a 291 at the NAIA National Championships.
Won 2 Mid-South Conference Championships.
Won 2 Regular Mid-South Conference Championships
Won 1 Region XI Championships.
Won 2 Mid-South Conference Coach of the Year awards.
Won 1 Region XI Coach of the Year awards.
Was voted by his peers to coach the NAIA team at the World University Games in Thailand, where they finished 3rd in the world.

Richard Hines, PGA Professional
KiS Country Club and Golf Academy
Lexington, Kentucky

Richard is a Class A Member of the PGA of America, and has a wealth of experience in golf instruction.  Among his accomplishments are:

Developed a “Family Lesson” program, making golf more enjoyable for spouses and children at Southern Meadows Golf Club in Rush, New York
Increased the Junior Golf Program from non-existence to 80 participants in two years at Midvale Country Club in Penfield, New York
Wrote monthly golf instruction tips for the Rochester Voice Newspaper in 2000, 2001 & 2002.
Traveled with his family, visiting 45 states in a Motorhome
Worked as a consultant for Robert Trent Jones, Sr.

Am I negative absolutley (when a Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy ueses unethical marketing and sales methods). It is not a matter of whether I would or would not use the product and service. Value determined with blinders on is everyones choice. To justify the “means” by simply commending the “end” because it meets a need should always seek counsel. And you were clear as not caring about the “means to their end”. Hey thats your choice, and you can of course do as you wish.

As you stated below-- “I cant help the people sho are closed minded and only see the negative in every situation.  That must be a terrible way to live life.  But I can simply show the value they provide in one way that makes it a great value.  I dont care how they market and sell the product, I think it is a wierd way also, but I dont let it mask my decision of the value they added.

I thought I would help correct your observation of my personal experience. I have taking several tours and have been a member, whom saw all the things I and others have discovered. You have not done any of these things and until you experience personally what countless others have you will have to wait and see. I say all this in useing this blog as the previlage it is and in the spirit of helping others whom want to know.

You stated below here ---
And you have done so by looking negitively upon the the whole company based on a marketing scheme that they outsource. If you can devalue just that benifit of being a Kis member, then I may listen to you some more, but otherwise you should not write so negetively about someting that you have not even been a part of.

Oh if you would like to see Kis Golf, inc. / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy’s lack of concern and, frankly not giving a rip, please take a look at ( http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/294/RipOff0294868.htm . There is so many more examples. For others whom would want to know and post, in order to warn others.

Let me give another example that may help the perspective others are speaking of. If you wanted a lawyer for something, would you choose one that used highly unethical practices to yeild the results you value. It really comes down to the kis golf corporate ethics. And that may not be important to some.

I hope for a better representative company to the world of golf than Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy

I dont know of one company that doesnt have disatisfied customers.  I do believe I can make a decision on my own without the negative attitudes of a few percent.  I tried to tell you what I am interested in and how their compny offers a great service, but again you went into how they market and sale their products.  You can share your ideas and spread negativity , and I will spread of a good service that makes golf affordable and has many benifits, a copntinue to be a positive person who enjoys a great game.

Yes this post is only for others whom want to know the facts, please, you may feel free to reply. Otherwise, I guess its ok to be super positive about poor ethics with Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy and tell kis executives of their great service and product.

If kis golf, inc / kis country club and golf academy were to have 1 , 10, or 100 disatisfied customers, they would naturally & clearly look to satisfy them I am sure. Yet that has not proven to be the case again and again.

All others whom choose to be satisfied (which I encourgage) enjoy your membership and clubs, etc.

At the same time gratiously allow the others whom want to or already know the facts of the hidden sales agenda, of Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy whom we know does not give a rip. Let us do our own customer due deligence—here is a start -( http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/294/RipOff0294868.htm ).

This is not just a few customers with a bad experience. And yes all business have bad experiences. The difference is, if you have a bad experience, know that you will not be helped with the Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy.

For grins pull up BBB in any of the Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy locations and be ready for more of the same. The vacation company that is part of the free gift is full of people whom experience a let down. Remember we are all let down. The difference is kis does not give a rip. Try calling in and find out how long it takes to have anyone help.

Anyone whom is not a member or been thru at least one tour no need contribute an insight, right.

I love Sport, the Game of Golf and the Integrity that can not be compromised. Kis Golf, inc / Kis Country Club and Golf Academy will hopefully make these changes in customer service before they worry about a sales qouta that I am sure is foremost when you are being toured. Remember, you can not go home and think about it and have the same deal. This is a sign of a company that has one clear priority.

The clubs, the simulator and the lessons are awesome. Being that, they if kis would curb the tactics that turn off 9.5 out of 10 prospects they may have a long term success.

golf searcher - 29 February 2008 07:45 AM

yes I heard others are seeking a class action as well.

Who do we need to contact on the class action?  We have been ripped off.  We attempted to rescind the contract within three business days and I keep getting the same answer. You can’t cancel the contract. We signed the contract Jan. 12.  These posts were not up then.  I wish I would have known before going on the tour what kind of operation they run.  We had no idea about the academy.  We filled out a chance to win a golf cart and they called and asked if we would like to putt to win a cruise and tour their facility in Nashville.  I wish I had never gone.  We have been trying to resolve this issue for over two months now.  We filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in Nashville.  They cannot get a response from Kisgolf, as a result, they have an unsatisfactory rating now.  I coach high school golf and was mostly interested in the simulator.  I was told you can look on the internet and not find one for less than $9000.  When I returned home I looked at the website for the simulator and the price started at $4000 and went to $9000 for the ultimate simulator.  The one they was selling cost between $5000 and $5500.  When I called and tried to rescind the contract they kept telling me I couldn’t.  I told them I had been lied to and deceived (fraud) about the price of the product.  They offered to take the simulator off and $3000 off of the contract price.  What a bargain, they were going to take $3000 off for a product they told me cost $9000.  Afterall, my main interest was the simulator.  They have told me so many lies you wouldn’t believe.  They sell your account to GE financing.  We were told our payments would be between $230-$250 and had zero percent interest and zeero payments for one year.  We filed a dispute with GE.  After receiving their response, which was that all cancellations had to be resolved with the merchant.  We received a bill the next day for $376 due March 30.  Well, we thought we at least had a year to get it resolved.  The billing statement has made us think different.  We have now contacted an attorney.  Kisgolf said they have never lost a case.  I don’t know how many cases they have been in but they may be involved in one more.  How does FRAUD sound?

Partner, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I am so sorry you have become exactly what Golf does not need. Its one thing to have court cases over one patent and another. But thats common when you have something that is every evolving. We even from time to time have some press on a player that might be a negative. But as an overall picture Golf is Clean. And has to remain that way.

Well these thugs and cons whom can not even keep employees let alone a customer whom actually uses the product. Its a shame.

Yes there is recourse, and you are not alone. And there operation protocols is riddle with Fraud, Scam, Unethical, Deceptive....

I am a positive person having a bad experience. The difference is the David and Goliath scenerio will pan out.

Sorry for spelling errors.

Hang in there. Have a great day with your students on the course.

There is away to communicate off of this website and I will look in to it. This is a previlage to be part of bettering golf on the GolfBlogger site.

As of 2008 KiS country club and golf academy continues not to advertise. They do not advertise cuz it cuts in to profits. Remember if you have been through a tour, you register to win a Golf cart. That is there marketing. The big catch is you do not know what awaits you after they call you and the thousands of other every week at each location, whom have as well scribbled their names on a slip and dropped in the box. Oh! the Call comes and you learn what being chased is all about, especially if you are savey enough to ask questions before you spend money for gas to get there. Anyhow, most that may come to read this blog on the web are generally going to be those whom have already been a prospect and have been cohersed in to becoming members. They make car sales look like a walk in park. Anyhow, I have had others in other links like yourself likely that are looking to get back what kis country club and golf academy suckered them in to. Oh! they will always claim they are honest and you bought and its tuff if your unhappy about anything cuz you are now on a third parties roll for monthly payments before you actual leave the facility. The dirty secret is you may be on 2 or 3 credit sources - GE - Wells Fargo - MBNA - etc, cuz you did not qualify for the full membership amount on one. What does that tell you about your abilty to afford something you do not need. Yep more Fraud

You would never have thunk that the the great character, integrity and honesty of Golf could be altered in the way this deceptive membership sales of kis golf, inc has been able to do… So buyer beware.

The bigger they get the harder they fall. The only hope is that another outside group aquistion them for a buck or two and change the whole sales operation process. The clubs, the lessons are really the only thing of value. The travel shame is never used by most of the members whom have discussed on the web the process. They have said that they were afraid of losing the travel package. No money in most budgets there to utilize this travel shame anyway. The claim the company has been in business 30 years. Who in the flip cares.

Another link I found wass http://www.kisgolf.blogspot.com . Not a lot there yet. Yet enough little fires will at best for now make buyers beware. Otherwise it will be a good location to group when a class action starts. Fraud is the foundation… The executives and other players in this operation can be seen up close at http://www.kisgolf.com.

Kis Golf is such a rip off. I just found a new blog about this bad company. It is http://kisgolf.blogspot.com. This is a forum for unhappy members. Shame on Kis golf.

Well it looks like there has been some headway with this blog and several others on the web. I have found that individuals are not about idle lip service, or just angry or making threats online. These people have been taken to the cleaners.

The one with the 70year(near to) old woman and her husband just turns your stomach.

I have spoke off the blog to many more that have secured lawyers and were initially going to go it alone. I said that the kis golf thugs and attorneys would be intimidate as Chucky Nance revealed to many on http://www.ripoffreport.com. Its great that the so called authorities in the executive area of KiS Country Club & Golf Academy will never change their stripes. Once a crook always a crook until the business is shut down. They are so busy opening facilities to garner $$ that the focus is not the accumulation of dis-satisfied prospects, members or those employees from within this scam.

Its ok, continue to build momentum and the time will come to file the case.

I just wanted to finally put a good post on for Kis Golf. I’ve been a member since this past summer and my husband and I love it. We both have improved from the lessons and enjoy the vacations. Cool concept and nice people.

OK folks looks like we have an ear now of those at kis that avoid that phone call after the sale. It is so well deserved. I am very grateful to the Golfblogger for the privilege to share the good and the bad as this is one of several sites that I had initially seen the kis country club & golf academy, and the kis golf, inc continued lack of consideration. Its so funny I have moved on and curiously wanted to see if the kis business was continuing the misrepresentation at the sales table. I am so tired of hearing about all that they give new members on the other sites (that is not the problem) when the people whom have a problem are flat out ignored. How dare anyone, anytime, and anywhere. Get the picture.

During the prided emotional sale that is mandated at the kis sales golf table (they pride themselves on this in the nightly sales reports), they are all hopeful kis got one today. The problem is not a club thing , a lesson thing, a whatever else they give a new member. Its much better to say what they take i the methods they choose to sell. Free country, sell at will, and all that… but ignore people whom you sell regardless of their need --- Houston we have a problem.

You may go to http://www.ripoffreport.com or the most active dialog is from what I have discovered at http://www.kisgolf.blogspot.com

Regardless of kis golf ignoring and use of threatening comments elsewhere - the purpose remains the same in a exchange of a blog. To help those that have given up or are curious. To be honest, it is a great product being managed by those whom have expressed to me their own frustration in staff sales meetings.