Golfblogger

They claim to have a patented golf clubs. How do I quickly find the legitimacy of this claim, without a USPN (Patent #) We are exploring answers to other things @ this link http://www.kisgolf.blogspot.com

KIS Golf just opened a store in my town, and someone was telling me about this $5000 golf package.  Good Gravy!  That must be one fine set of custom built clubs!!! 

I did some searching and found this webpage.  Interesting- says a lot.  They don’t seek to satsify customers: :(
Link: Rip-off report
My personal favorite line, from the president of the company:

KiSGolf Inc. like alot of companies have policies that dont always favor unhappy customers. I feel sure that anyone who reads the complaint will certainly assume that only one one side of a unique situation has been detailed. Buyers remorse is a very real fealing.

A quick review of their website says nothing about customer satisfaction either:
Link: http://www.kisgolf.com

yes I heard others are seeking a class action as well.

They claim that they don’t sell golf clubs. After more than two hrs of bs sales pitches I did’nt even think to ask if I could try their clubs and simulator. Oh well. I was glad to get out of their store. The worst pitch they kept throwing was, “Golf is all about spending quality time with your spouse and children.” Then why did TM say 14 and 12 is OK but ask us to leave our 9yr.old home. If they wanted to sell momma they should have invited her baby/s. $6518.00 for an $8000.00 travel value and two sets of custom clubs. Why cant they sell golf clubs, just golf clubs?

They could just sell golf clubs if they wanted to.  And if their ideas have merit, then the big names will license it. 

As far as patents go, they probably do have patents on them.  TaylorMade, Callaway, Nike, and the others have plenty of patents on their clubs and putters too.

One thing they are touting is the custom fitting of the clubs.  Well, if you buy any $500+ set from the majors at a pro shop or reputable golf shop, and you should be getting them fitted - and if you are buying new, I don’t think that costs anything (at 6’, when I was fitted, I actually fit to a standard lie and length).

Some observations in a so called tour at Kis Country Club & Golf Academy / Kis Golf. Whew, I got out, but a friend is stuck and can not be released. No 3 day right to change ones mind. All sales are FINAL.

These clubs have a patent (this is highly questionable - ask this question to anyone of the fast talking sales closers during a presentation as you are cornered to becoming a member. Those of us whom have been fast talked in to a membership have never actually taking full advantage for many reasons, distance to drive, no invites, etc Its like the health club membership that you use for a short time and park due to lack of programing, or employee turnover, or management problems. Give them a call. ask them for patent id,#, etc. And watch what does not happen quickly

The club like any club creates a lie (layman’s description—the angle of the shaft & club head creates an angle, that places the club flush to the ground. The terms, like these clubs are flatter you will hear from many golfers. Like other Golf Companies, one being Taylor-made has clubs that are adjusted to you.) Imagine the angle of each club head & shaft that would allow you to grip the club so that you can keep your body in one spine angle, one swing plan. This simple theory can put a person in one position for each club. And this means the golfer will be in 1 position for every club in the bag. Thats the only good news.

Some Pros have there clubs forged and fitted at the factory to accommodate their need. They play well enough that every manufacture would want to provide this club making process and sponsor them as well.

Having said this, anyone can make a club to do just that within legal patent law. Its a free market. Open a facility to practice. It would not need to be a paid upfront membership, over priced, and would not include just another internet travel website.

They offer to cut your handicap in half garaunteed! they will put it in writing, they ask for 12 teaching lessons with the PGA professional, all lessons are free with program.  The finaced amount for two people runs about $200 a month for sixty months.  Thats 100 a month per person.  I spend that much in an hour getting a lesson from a professional.  This is a PGA pro and he will come to your course also as a member.  I dont see how that could be a bad deal even without clubs which are gauranteed for life.  I wish there was a facility in Charelston SC and I believe the are opening one soon.  If a kid grows up using their clubs, they we replace them as the kid grows, free as part of the membership.  The simulators that you can use a very cool and can help you.  Because you can practice inside and you get thirteen different aspects of your swing.  How can anyone look down on this deal.  Yes if the drive is too far, but a couple lessons a month cover the costs, and the clubs included.  I personally think it is a great idea, especially for a beginer needing a lot of lessons. 

As far as the tours, yeah the movie is boring and repetitive and the tour last about 45 minutes to and hour and they give you a gift certificate for a meal or somehting like that.  The tour does cover the whole thing though.  They will try to get you to but that day or they take away a free vacation club offer for first times visotrs only, thati is the selling bullet to get you to buy that day. 

An employee told me that the marketing company hired for Kis get people in for the tour without properly explaining what they are going to be asked to do and promises them prizes.  They do not advertise but they do sponser some girl who sopposedly shot 59 in a n ameteur tournament.

But they will put the gaurantee about cutting your habndicapp in half in writing.  I think it will make you practice more if you use it and the lessons and of course if you do that you will do better.

I was told that they do have apatent on the clubs and that Callaway tried to purchase that patent from them for 35 million dollars and it was turned down by the owner of Kis golf.

I thought the tour was fine and interesting and will join when they open in Charelston SC based just on the savings for lessons for my family.  Everyone has there opinion about different golf fads and I do believe the way they merket their product could be beter, I still think they have something to offer.

I will have to be honest with you and that is that the product & service is worthy of a honest business marketing plan and can be done by anyone wanting to grow Golf with the integrity it deserves, and they are clearly useing another plan. The hinge pin problem is the slease business method used in prospecting by baiting, bringing us to the closing table and useing emotion and an impulse to make a sale. 5k, 11k and up is not a sale that should be made on an impluse in anyones expense column. The business owners at kis would see me buying on impluse as great, but ask those whom are likely experiencing buyers remorse. Now does this sound like a Christian based Company. Not any I know.

So as to buying in a location near you, buy what you plan to use, and use what you are buying. If you do not --- pay it off and hope the facilities are operational. 

Meanwhile, maybe an aquistion by a Golf Entrepuernuer will come sooner than later which means an honest sales practice may be possible.

Wow. I still have way too many concerns though. 
1) Pay $6k, what if the location here closes?
2) Clubs for life, sounds good, maybe if it was Taylormade or Callaway or Nike, but KiS Golf is 24 months old, they have been around less time than the finance contract you are asked to sign.  Who fixes/replaces the clubs in 6 years if KiS golf isn’t around?
3) Why do they have to sell this way?  $200 a month I might pay for a couple lessons and a place to practice, but spending $6k up front?  Payments are not subscriptions.  I can drop my club membership at any time, hell, I will get a prorated amount back for this month if I drop it today-- but get uninterested in KiS?  keep paying bub.
4) What if the instructor sucks?  What if you just don’t like the guy after a couple lessons?  I am not locked in with my pros, I can switch, I can take a guy for putting, one for driving, whatever.  Yeah, it is $50 an hour for their time, but I probably don’t need a crapload of lessons to dramatically impact my handicap.
5) So if my handicap doesn’t halve, I get my money back?  Really?  So if I don’t go from a 23 to a 13, they will refund the whole deal.  I am guessing there are some outs on that, because I can easily sandbag my way to a $6k refund. 

The $35 mil deal from Callaway sounds like a sales pitch--- otherwise I have to call the president a dope.  That seems like a nobrainer to take that deal.  Of course it is something that KiS can say, and nothing that could ever be verified.

kis golf was started in 2002 in columbia sc.  So they have been around for 6 years.  They have 11 sites now.  So the are growing.  As far as the instructer, check and see if he is a pga member and if he is a certiifed teacher and get to know him before you join.seem like they would have more than one offering so many free lessons, so you probly have a choice.  I enjoyed my presentation and thought the product was a great service, especially for my wife and kids.  I dont want to teach them.  Imy arm was not twisted or tricked to buy anything that day except the vacation club was pulled as part of the offer.  I dont care about that so I am going to wait until a facility opens near me and I will join.  an employee told me that a marketing team has been hired to get tours and that they are the ones not being honest about the presentation for the tour.  Kis needs to drop them and market for themselve to stop pissing peopel off.

also, I guess you could sandbag your way out of that deal, but then that makes you the unethical person.  But if it really helped you that much, wouldnt you want to continue the membership instead of trying to get out of it?  Just wondering about that.  They said it could be put in writing.

kis golf puts nothing in writing that allows for any gaaurantees of satisfaction. That is an early warning sign anywhere. And even if they did, you would have the same hassles as we know if you want any refunds, etc.. In fact when you sign your name, there is no turning back. No 3 day laws as I found out after. A third party CC holds your obligation which is intirely separate from your agreement. Look to see through the local BBB the standings. Better yet see if kis golf is a member of the BBB in the location you are considering. 

Here is another red flag - I have been toured in several facilites without a marketing invite and they are empty of members, yet the sales bell was rung countless time while I was there. And they claimed to have 1000s of members at these 2 facilites. Yep, that was obvious. Someone forgot to tell them they could come in and use it. That tells me people are buying something they do not use, or worst case do not really want. Try to walk away from the sales table and watch the heavy artillary fly. I saw it.

golf searcher - 13 March 2008 09:48 AM

Here is another red flag - I have been toured in several facilites without a marketing invite and they are empty of members, yet the sales bell was rung countless time while I was there. And they claimed to have 1000s of members at these 2 facilites. Yep, that was obvious. Someone forgot to tell them they could come in and use it. That tells me people are buying something they do not use, or worst case do not really want. Try to walk away from the sales table and watch the heavy artillary fly. I saw it.

If one of these joints has 1000s of members, or even just 1,000 members, how would you get time on the simulators?  My club has 700 members, for 36 holes of golf.  People play in foursomes and still guess what, at the best times you have some trouble getting on a course.  A simulator or practice bay does not hold 80 people all at once, it only holds one.  If you even had a couple hundred taking lessons, it would seem to fill up pretty darn quick. 

BTW- Funny, I should be called unethical for the thought of sandbagging out of this scheme.  The company is constantly claiming they are not responsible for the misrepresntations of their marketing companies, yet they also are high pressure sellers.  I talked to a couple guys that went by for a spiel trying to win a golf cart, and they reported that they are getting barraged with calls afterwards.  Seems like this is taking the worst aspects of the time shares combined with the fitness clubs.

Sorry- if I join something like this it will be Parmasters where you are not locking yourself in for any great expense.  if you want to quit going, you quit.

Playing golf is a great expense no matter what.  You get out what you put in.  They are offering a good service, simple.  Without simulators or visitng the store.  The pro will comes to your place, if for only 3 times a month it a good deal. everything else is an added benifit.  How can you knock the company for trying to introduce new golfers to a game at a cheaper price than any other offer.  Yes their marketing plan sucks, and maybe they have a few sleasy salesman.  Dont let that influence the value of their product, which they can only provide by getting committed memberships.  5,000 over five years is a very very insignificant amount of money if you are a serious golfer or are going to learn to play.

Golf Tec offers a simular product and I am in no way knocking their product but lets price comare the two

golftec 1 year

$5,999 per couple
one year membership to unlimited practice on indoor simulators
52 lessons per year per person
one free clubfitting session
no clubs

KiS
8,999 per couple
2 sets of custom fit clubs, titanium heads, fitted shafts, grips, etc.  Bag is also included.  These clubs are gauranteed for life.  Cant outgrow them or get to good for them as far as needing stiffer shafts.  Imagine the savings for a growing child.
Unlimeted use of indoor simulaotrs for life
Unlited lessons including off site and playing lessons
Travel club membership

I believe in both products and believe the staff at these facilities could make a huge diffence in the matter.  Both programs inlcude a structured program, technology, and clubfitting.  Three very important aspects in retaining golfers and growing the game of golf.

I will say that Kis Golf, inc. is only interested in one thing. Observe & Listen to others whom have taken a tour, those who bought, those who changed their mind, and are now stuck with something they will pay on a CC…
Oh, kis golf, inc is intersted in your money, spend a few days in a facility and talk to all those members whom actual come. There is a reason there are virtually no members coming and useing it. They were suckered in to something they could not afford, nor needed, or worse yet would likely never use.

Yes there is the top 2% that use it. If you do not see that warning sign. Well then you are likley getting what you want. And I commend you for useing it. Just know that if a business foundation is corrupt, then the walls are shakey.
Oh, I love the Game of Golf, and the Integrity of the Sport. kis golf, inc. operates without integrity 1st and last. Success is simply sales for them… and they can find lots of us to sell to…